A Very Special Night in LA
Counting Crows are Riding High

>> Adam Duritz at the Wiltern Theatre. >>

>> Los Angeles [12/11/02] >> To hear Adam Duritz tell it, Counting Crows are working through a period of turmoil and change.  They gave no indication of any band disturbances in their sparkling live show at the Wiltern Theater.

With drummer Ben Mize having decided that this leg of tour would be his last, the band is scrambling to find someone to man the kit while also completing the tour and preparing to immediately head to Europe for more dates once the swing through America is complete.  It's no easy task, but after so many years together, his bandmates understand where he's coming from.  "That's kind of where I'm at right now," Adam told us, "Happy for him that he's going to be doing what he wants to do, but I miss him already."

Part of Duritz's sadness may come from the fact that Counting Crows are playing great live, making Mize's departure all the more difficult.  The Los Angeles show caught them at their best - the band played a seamless set that brought the crowd alive immediately and kept them cheering and dancing for the duration.   Beginning with the opening notes of "Have You Seen Me Lately" through to the last refrain of "Holiday In Spain," the fans knew this was a special night.

>> Crows David Immergluck and David Bryson. >>

When the band did go into a mellower mode, the feeling became akin to a fireside sing-along, with Counting Crows making it seem like a small performance for some close friends.  "We just realized," Adam announced, "we haven't done an acoustic set for quite a while."  With that the band embarked on an extensive acoustic set that featured intimate versions of major hits "Mr. Jones," "Omaha" and "Rain King."

Many bands have a difficult time moving in and out of the "unplugged" state, but for Counting Crows, at least this evening, the transition was easy.  They moved from the acoustic pieces into a rousing and emotional rendition of "American Girls" that brought the house down.

>> Adam chats with the sell-out crowd. >>

The night was made all the more exciting by the opening act: the newly reformed Toad The Wet Sprocket, who sounded like they'd never stopped playing together.  Though only scheduled to play nine shows together, there's hope that after the enthusiastic reception they received from the crowd that maybe they'll keep it going.

About a week before the show, Adam Duritz called in to talk about playing with Toad, Ben's departure, and a variety of other topics.  Here's how it went:

VOX: How's the tour going so far?
Adam Duritz: Well, it's kind of tough right now, for a lot of reasons.  From a band standpoint it's tough because we're looking for a new drummer.  Ben has decided that he's ready to take life a little easier and spend more time with his family.  It's really difficult when a person has been a part of your daily life for what, 8, 9 years, and you know they won't be there anymore.  It's selfish, but knowing that doesn't make it any easier…

In some ways I'm totally envious of him - I completely understand what he's doing and why.  But, it's stressful…there's the stress of trying to find a new drummer by the end this tour and tour at the same time.  We also know that the end of his time with us is coming, and that's not something we're looking forward to.

>> Adam and those trademark dreads. >>

As a band, we're playing great.  I feel like we're at the top of our game right now, which is why it's all the more upsetting that Ben is leaving.   That's kind of where I'm at right now - happy for him that he's going to be doing what he wants to do, but I miss him already.

VOX: Counting Crows have become a real touring band, somewhat like the Dead, where there are fans who follow the band around.  When do you think it evolved into that?
AD: We've always been a touring band, and I think we've done well with radio, too.  I think we're doing fine with radio - we entered the charts at 143, then moved to 43, then moved from 43 to 30 this week, so I think it's going great in that respect.  Touring for us has always been the key, though.  I think touring is the way we established ourselves and has always been the main point in our relationship with our fans.   August And Everything After blew up after we had been on the road for a year supporting it.

You can't expect radio to be there to catch you, but the fans will be there.  We can't depend on radio to be tuned into what we're doing and the music we're creating.  Radio follows trends, and you have to be prepared to not be the trend.  That's when having established yourself with your fans is critical.

VOX: How did you end up touring with the reformed Toad the Wet Sprocket?
AD: We heard they were rehearsing and called Glen [Phillips] right away.  It was a no-brainer.

Later we were thinking, "I hope the rehearsals are going well."  I mean, what if they were at each other's throats or it just wasn't clicking!  We hadn't even asked.

>> Adam belts out the tunes. >>

VOX: This may seem like a silly question, but I was reading the journals that you post, and you mentioned "cunningly thought out marketing strategies disguised as deeply meaningful rock music."  Is this a jab at Dave Matthews?
AD: No, why?
VOX: Because they market themselves pretty heavily.
AD: You have to understand that Dave Matthews owns their own merchandising company - it's a DIY thing.  They set it up on their own and they do a great job at it.

The line means nothing.  It's a joke.  It's a jab at people who, in everything they do, think about how it's going to look to everyone else.  They're worried about what the public will think, so they do things for bad reasons.  It's like when I got grief for who I had sing backup on a song and some of the more cynical fans gave me a hard time about it.  I went on there and said "I'm sorry I didn't consult with you about who we had a backup singer!"  I couldn't believe people were critical of it.
VOX: You're talking about Vanessa Carlton.
AD: Right.  I think Vanessa did a great job.  But, you know, some people don't understand that not everything is done with the idea of how it's going to play out in the media.  I got flack because I said I like Nelly.  Have you heard his stuff?   It's great!  And I love the work that the Neptunes do.  Their production work is incredible.

It's funny because for some of the fans, if Counting Crows aren't working with matchbox twenty or Ryan Adams or Pete Droge or Pete Yorn or whoever is in this very specific group of artists, we get ripped.  Some people have this general feeling that bands are trying to pull the wool over their fan's eyes.  Everything they do is disingenuous, which isn't the case.  Everybody gets into music for the same reasons - to sing or play guitar or whatever.  It's for the love of music.   Some of the fans, a very small amount, don't get it.

VOX: You obviously spend quite a bit of time communicating with fans, sometimes it seems like it's out of frustration.  Is there ever a point where you just say, 'Fuck it.  Let them think what they want?'

AD: Sometimes, yes.

There are times when I'm in a mood  - mind you, I'm not out there writing two-line posts that say nothing - sometimes I feel like saying forget it, why bother?

But, I've always been the modern music geek like a lot of these people who want to communicate and know what's going on.  There are a few nut-bags out there that are never happy and drive you nuts, but for the most part, the most part, the Internet is great for communicating with fans.  The record companies think of the Net as this huge dyke, with lots of enormous holes that are taking profits away, but we try to use it for what it is and get the most out of it.

We try to fight the negatives: people used to go to concerts, now they're dispassionate and they don't go as much.  I think lots of people see MTV and they figure that's good enough - it's the same as going to a concert.  The Internet is this incredible tool…you can get right into people's room and talk to them.   Lots of people see the bands that they love as selling out because they did this or that - I can go on and tell them why we did something or what happened in a certain situation.  That way, we don't lose them, we stay connected to them.  They understand why we made a business decision or why someone sang backup on a song or whatever.

The music business is one of the few businesses where I think the compensation is fair - you don't go to work and produce, you don't get paid.  It's too bad the CEO of Enron or these other companies weren't held to the same standard.   For me, there's no salary if I fuck off and don't do my job.  We make money off of tickets, but in exchange, you get a ticket and you get to see a show.  We make money off of a CD, but in exchange, you get a CD.  It's the same with t-shirts and so on.  If we don't do a good job, no one's going to buy the CD or the ticket, and we'll get nothing.  I think it's fair.

>> Adam is feeling it. >>

VOX: We're hearing about how the music industry is suffering - what do you think needs to be done to get it right again?
AD: Well…the fact is that downloading songs off of the Net is theft plain and simple.   Someone created something and now it's being taken and the artist gets nothing…people who have money didn't have it fall from the sky.  They earned that - it doesn't just fall off of some fucking tree.

We spend all these years practicing our craft and trying to be the best we can be, and most musicians never make it.  It's harder now because the marginal bands just get dropped.  It makes it easy to understand why the labels are looking at other revenue streams like DVDs and stuff like that.

For us, touring is the way we do it, but you can lose your shit loads of money on tour.  If you don't sell tickets, you're screwed.

>> Adam makes his point. >>

VOX: Understood, but you have to see it from a fan's point of view: it's like Robin Hood - you're taking something from the rich, which people see as the big behemoth record companies, and they give to the poor, which is the starving college student or young person who figures, "Hey, I've got limited funds - I can either buy the CD or see the band live."  They're going to go to the show and get the music for free.  They figure the band gets more from the ticket and the only party who gets shafted is the label.

How then, does the industry, which is the labels, bands and the media, explain to fans that music piracy hurts everyone?
AD: Wow, you hit it right on the head.  How can you explain it to people?  Some people aren't going to believe the truth anyway.  I had one fan write me and tell me I should be happy because of all the wealth, freedom and woman - or something like that - that fame buys you.  It's like, "What imaginary world do you live in?"   If anyone thinks that you can control a woman, they're kidding themselves.  As for freedom, we're not free to do anything.  We're out touring all the time, we don't see our families - my sister had a baby months ago and I still haven't seen them.   It's tough.

Thinking about what you said, it's a great analogy, and the answer isn't really clear.  I still love music and I collect bootlegs, but I think that's different that copying CDs.  I trade bootlegs myself, and it's like, "How did you get this?"  But I think it's very different, and it doesn't take anything away from the artist. 

We've got to figure out some way to make it all work…make everyone happy.  I'm sure the labels are working on it as quick as they can. >>